[BITList] reply to ct, plus some extra.

Fri Nov 26 16:11:34 GMT 2010

Colin 

Can  only talk about the ordinary Jean-Pierre and in particular those who live as my neighbours in Brittany.

In this part of France heavy industry does not really exist, except, perhaps for Chantier de L'Atlantique, who have succeeded, in building prestige vessels, which could just as well been built in the old traditional shipbuilding areas of the Tyne, Weir (my roots are from this area which is why I have put them first!), The Clyde, Forth, Mersey and Belfast. That said they have done this through them being in the Euro and having the political support of the rest of the Club, the parent country in particular.

 Apart from that, the Bretons are an agricultural people with farms etc. They have been enormously helped by the (again EU controlled) Common Agricultural Policy, or CAP. That has been a huge benefit to them as they lived on subsidies from the EU. So much so that if the EU even attempt to rein them in they manifest and take to the streets and ports in true 1789 fashion and the government caves in.

It should be remembered that France is roughly 2.5 times the size of the UK and to a million or so we have the same population at 60mill.( I make the analogy to about 75% of the UK population being housed in a wedge drawn say from Glasgow to Edinburgh and dropping a couple of perps down to say Dover and Bournemouth)

Apart from the really big cities the rest is countryside. The French are in NO WAY team players, they extract what they can from the EU.(founder membership might have something to do with that!) and thumb their noses at the rules and regs that they are committed to observe. E.g. Fishing,  Mad Cow disease ( they had that too, in spades, but kept it very, very quiet), etc, etc. We observe pretty strictly the rules imposed but they just give the Gallic shrug and go on strike.

However France has always been very left wing politically and therefore the Unions have had a major influence. They still do as the recently publicised strikes over raising the retirement age from   60 to 62 shows.

The average Frenchman  (and me) cannot understand as to how a bunch of students, who by definition do not have a job, can cause mayhem to the whole country when, by the time they achieve employment they will have to do some  40 years of work to qualify for their "retraite" . (By that time the pension age will most likely be nearer 70.again in my opinion.)

The French also employ very restrictive practises to preserve their status quo.  E.g.  Apart from the major conurbations like Paris, Bordeaux, Lyon. Marseille, Toulouse etc the supermarkets do not promote produce from other EU nations in any meaningful quantities, unlike the UK where you can get stuff from all over the place, EU and non EU. 

For all that it is peaceful in rural Brittany, tranquil and cheaper to live here (at the moment anyway) than across La Manche.

The answer to your basic question is therefore that the earlier EU members certainly benefited from the single currency, but this has encouraged profligate spending and now they will have to do something like the UK to clear and balance their books. (n.b. The EU budget has NEVER been signed off by auditors since it's inception). Ostriches and burying heads in the sand readily come to my mind.

The newer members, having seen the bonanza years joined because they wanted a slice of the action. They will be very disappointed I feel sure. Should we have joined, I think not.

 Have close ties with our near neighbours most certainly but expect a United Response from the EU no way

 Do not forget the Falklands, French Super Etandards and Exocets were used against us by a 3rd party and I don't think that the French derived much discomfort from the sinking  of  HMS's Sheffield, Coventry and Sir Galahad.    Ron

----- Original Message ----- 

From: CT's 

To: BitList 

Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 11:17 PM

Subject: [BITList] yer average jean-pierre

ron

you are just the person to give me your views and let me know how the homme ordinaire has benefited [or not] from membership in the EU.

as I mentioned, asking the ordinary man in Uk the same question, I received little clear response - just a vague look around the eyes and talk of wine!. 

When asked about membership of EU politicians always trotted out high sounding gains, particularly for industry with it's implication of more high paying jobs and exports galore.

I am more interested in what the average george [or jean-pierre or karl-heinz] gets that they would not have got without the EU!

I understand you opine it is a fantasy dreamt up by two major war losers to recapture their lost and vainglorious pride.

strange way of trying to achieve that!

I can't imagine how rivals thought they could achieve that dream.

ct

From: Ronald Thomas 

Sent: Thursday, November 25, 2010 3:42 PM

To: BitList 

Subject: [BITList] European Union.

Hugh

Sorry, but on this particular occasion I do not agree with you that we should have been in the Euro at all.and living as I do in the heart of Euroland (and being bi-lingual in French - which helps somewhat)  being for those in the Euro would have been a catastrophe for us.It is becoming a catastrophy for those in it at the moment.

In my humble opinion the whole concept of the Euro was to try, by having monetary union, to eventually form an USof Europe, principally led and architectured by Germany (who lost 2 WW's by trying to do it by military might) and the French who, on both accounts were beaten by the former.(plus 1870 too!)

For the last milennium we have been both allies and enemies with everyone in the now EU. The diversity of opinion, religion etc is mind boggling and also in the past, most of our relationships with each and everyone involved was based on religio-political lines.

In France alone the mentality of the different parts of the "hexagon" (as France is referred to) is greater that the Scots,Welsh, Irish and Sassenachs plus the old chestnut of North or South of the Wash! combined.

Also ,surely anyone who joins a club must feel entitled to receiving the benefits that the club affords. This means by adhering to the Club Rules.( Which, like sleepwalkers, the UK seemingly does without question) All the newer members,( but also France,as a founder member,) once in,seem to extract what they can and give "the Harvey Smith" (remember him in show jumping?) to complying. True nonetheless.Payback time is therefore at hand.

It was and always will be an ill founded plan that is sure to fail as long a  certain part of your anatomy points due South.

This was, again in my opinion, a fantasy dreamt up by two major war losers to recapture their lost and vainglorious pride. I seem to remember that in the 50's there was an organisation which went under the acronym of EFTA, which I think meant European Free Trade Association.Seemed a very good idea without all of the political and injurious twaddle that emanates from both Bruxelles and Strasbourg-- 

Any comments anyone  I'm cold, old and bored!!? Am of to have a large tot of Scottish Water (coloured amber.)

Ron

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